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How do I get the captions from Aperture to appear correctly?

  1. bikernz
    Member

    How do I get the captions from Aperture for Mac to appear in the caption field when importing media? They show up either as the 'Title' if the Aperture caption is only a few words, or in the 'Description' field for all other captions. Neither field displays in the blog so I always have to copy-paste all my captions, created in Aperture, to the 'Caption' field in WordPress. This is is tedious to say the least and should be entirely unnecessary if the fields were mapped correctly or the user could edit the field mapping. Aperture stores the caption in the ITPC Caption field so there should really be no excuse for this being incorrectly mapped.

    I am the only one seeing this bug?
    Blog url: http://bikernz.wordpress.com/

  2. timethief
    Member

    This thread has been flagged for Staff assistance.

  3. bryanvillarin
    Staff

    Hi,

    Can you reply with the Media Library URL (from your dashboard) of an image you've uploaded that was exported from Aperture? I'll be happy to take a closer look at this.

  4. bikernz
    Member

    Here are two typical results...

    1. My caption turns up as the title: http://bikernz.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=988

    2. My caption becomes the description: http://bikernz.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=986

    I hope this is what you were looking for. If not please let me know.

    Thanks,
    Brian.

  5. bryanvillarin
    Staff

    That was definitely it. I've reported this to our developers to take a closer look as to why the caption-abstract field for the second image isn't being copied to the title field in Media Library, and I'll follow up here as soon I hear back.

    Thanks for your patience, Brian! :-)

  6. bikernz
    Member

    Glad these links were useful.

    The problem here is that both of them have the caption in the wrong fields. The caption from the IPTC metadata should go into the WordPress caption field so it will be displayed under the image when inserted into a blog. It should never go into the title field and is not useful when it is in the description field.

    Just to be clear, IPTC captions need to be in the caption field.

    Thanks, Brian.

  7. bryanvillarin
    Staff

    Thanks for the clarification. This is actually core WordPress.org functionality, so we'll have to review this to see if it can get changed.

  8. bikernz
    Member

    IPTC captions are captions. Not titles, not descriptions. Wherever it falls in the WordPress system architecture the current implementation appears to be mistaken and in need of correction. The review should be very straightforward. I look forward to hearing more.

    Regards, Brian.

  9. bikernz
    Member

    Hi Bryan,

    How are we going on fixing captions?

  10. bryanvillarin
    Staff

    Hi Brian,

    I've just checked with our developers to see how we can proceed. I'm sorry for the delay.

  11. bikernz
    Member

    Was there any feedback from the developers in the week?

  12. bryanvillarin
    Staff

    Hi Brian,

    Yes. After evaluating the EXIF details you've given us with a couple of developers, we've found that the process for retrieving and displaying the image information will help explain why the metadata is a bit inconsistent.

    Here's a brief description of how we retrieve the metadata for each image:

    1. The IPTC synopsis of the caption is used as title.
    2. If the IPTC caption exists, is more than 80 characters, and is different than the title, it is used as caption.

    Then, we move onto the EXIF info:

    3. If the EXIF Image Description exists, and it's less than 80 characters, it's used as title.
    4. If the EXIF Image Description is longer than 80 characters, it is used as caption.
    5. If the EXIF Computed User Comments exists, and are different than the title, they are used as caption.
    6. Finally, if comments are set, they're used as caption.

    We're seeing that your pictures have Caption and Caption Synopsis as the same value, thus they are used as title and not repeated as caption.

  13. bikernz
    Member

    Bryan,

    I am not sure that the above process describes accurately what is happening. As a test, I uploaded another image from Aperture that had what Apple have labelled as a 'Title' and a 'Caption'. This image is in the same post as used previously. In WordPress the Title did indeed display as the Title. But the Caption ended up as the Description. It is more than 80 characters so according to step #2 above it should have been the Caption.

    Secondly, you describe the treatment of metadata by WordPress as "a bit inconsistent". Because you don't seem to have offered a conclusion in your post, does that mean that this 'inconsistent' behaviour is accepted as state of the art by WordPress? Or are there initiatives to improve this aspect in the near future?

    Lastly, I am surprised that in the process described above that the EXIF data is effectively ranked higher than the IPTC data. I am not an expert on the topic but I did understand that generally speaking EXIF data is created by the image capturing device whereas IPTC data is created/managed by user controlled software, like Aperture, Lightroom, PhotoShop. Hence the IPTC data should have precedence. Additionally EXIF data is often damaged in the various processing steps from camera to publication and is thus less reliable.

    Brian.

  14. bryanvillarin
    Staff

    As a test, I uploaded another image from Aperture that had what Apple have labelled as a ‘Title’ and a ‘Caption’.

    Could you please link to that other image from your Media Library in this forum thread?

  15. bikernz
    Member

    Sorry for the break - I have been away travelling and ill at the same time, not a lot of fun.

    Here is the link... http://bikernz.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/autumn-colours_2012-10-10_12-01-36_img_9824_c2a9briankarl2012.jpg

  16. bikernz
    Member

    Scratch that last link, it was the wrong one.

    Try this... http://bikernz.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/tutu-by-the-river_2012-10-29_15-06-27_img_0480_c2a9briankarl2012.jpg

  17. bryanvillarin
    Staff

    I'm sorry to hear that — it must've been rough, and I'm glad you're back in action.

    Lovely photo! My wife and I love tuxedo cats. So precious. :-)

    I've pinged our developer with the link to your image. Thanks for following up with us.

  18. bikernz
    Member

    It has been a long time since I have had an update on this thread.

    I have used the new media interface for two weeks now and it seems much better than the old version. However, the captions for all my uploads is still not in the caption field. It is in the description field. This is a real pain.

    If the logic is too convoluted to put the caption text into the caption field straight off then why not code, 'if the caption field is empty but the description field is not empty then copy the contents of the description field to the caption field'?? Job done.

    Cheers,
    Brian.

  19. timethief
    Member

    Hi there,
    I tagged this thread for Bryan. If you subscribe to the thread you will be notified when he replies.

  20. bikernz
    Member

    Thanks. I am already following. Bryan always gets back to me when I ping in a message but I guess he has not had a reply from the developer(s).

  21. kathrynwp
    Staff

    Hi there - thanks for checking in. I'm finding out where we're at with this and will get back to you as soon as I have news.

  22. sydlow
    Member

    Bryan, is the metadata processing the same for wordpress.org sites as what you've described here http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/how-do-i-get-the-captions-from-aperture-to-appear-correctly?replies=21#post-1056622?

  23. kathrynwp
    Staff

    bikernz - one of our developers is currently working on this. I'll keep you posted.

    sydlow - since WordPress.org uses the same media back-end as WordPress.com, it is likely the same.

  24. bikernz
    Member

    Happy New year and all that. Now that the holidays are over, is there any progress to report on this thread? Cheers.

  25. kathrynwp
    Staff

    bikernz - I will ask for an update and get back to you! Thanks for your patience.

  26. jamminb
    Member

    I too am interested to know what is happening here, further clarification would be appreciated.

    For me I just want a consistent way to get text into the wordpress CAPTION and TITLE.

    I don't understand why you would create exceptions for different lengths etc ... why not just a simple 1:1 mapping? Because we use hosted wordpress we cannot use plugins or modify code files, so we have to make these changes in the exif tags if the files before we update. Surely it's better to let us make the decision there (or at least make this an option)

  27. kathrynwp
    Staff

    jamminb - could you please provide a link to the page or post in question so we can take a closer look? Thanks.

  28. jamminb
    Member

    Hi,

    On this page:
    http://acrosstheandesbyblog.com/test-page/

    You will see an image that has been uploaded to the page, and inserted as a gallery and as a regular image.

    Whatever EXIF/IPTC tag I put the "caption" in, it always goes into the "description" and not the "caption" when uploaded to wordpress (I have tried description, headline and others).

    I like to use the caption instead, as it displays in the gallery when you mouse over the image.

    Currently I have to edit all images after upload and cut/paste the description to the caption.

    So my question is : Which tag should I put my caption in so that WordPress will accept it and store in it's own caption field on upload.

    Thanks

  29. bikernz
    Member

    jamminb is describing the exact same frustration with IPTC data fields not being mapped sensibly in to WordPress that I described it in painful detail at the beginning of this thread over three months ago. I think everyone should by now have a clear view of the problem. What we need to see now are some solutions.

  30. jamminb
    Member

    Correct. I jumped onto this thread because I have the same problem.

    From what I've read the core wordpress system has the same problem of a mish mash of rules - however they can be customised in a proper wordpress installation by editing a file. On wordpress.com we have no such luxury, so I think some variation from the core is necessary to implement this.

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