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Infinite Scroll: Do we get an opt out and will this apply to other themes?

  1. nickwk
    Member

    I tend to allow single topics to span multiple posts, and use each post as a kind of installment in a lager piece. With infinite scroll, my readers can now easily read all of these installments... backwards.

    OK, it's a free service and I'm a fringe case. I get that. I can accept that the primary focus of WordPress is not me, or people who write like me. I'll just switch to one of the themes that is meant for people who write like me. But then there's this:

    "as we fix these issues up we'll continue rolling out infinite scrolling to the rest of the themes that work with it."

    Any guesses which themes won't work with infinite scrolling? I understand that it's possible to get around this with code, but I've only been on WP for a month and this makes me all the more hesitant to give them money.

  2. teamoyeniyi
    Member

    @Nickwk - some of us already gave money. Hence our displeasure. No-ads upgrade, premium theme, domain mapping.......

  3. thesacredpath
    Member

    Just a song before I go...

    No one should every think that what they want around here means much because you aren't the MATT in AutoMATTic. This IS the reality of things at wordpress.com. You either live with it or you leave. Leaving is always your option. Sadly for many that have bought upgrades and are outside of the refund window, leaving isn't always an option. The other problem is, there aren't a lot of good options out there unless you want to self-host, and that comes with additional work and requires some additional skills.

    Self-hosting though, is the only real option to get out from under AutoMATTic's control and still use the wordpress software. The wordpress software is a great product and I'll continue to use it.

    Aloha everyone.

  4. lukofws
    Member

    I noticed that previewing twenty eleven & ten still not have infinite scrolling. Awkward isn't it?

  5. laufladenjena
    Member

    does anyone know if infinite scroll is also enabled on wordpress.org? If not i will move...!

  6. thesacredpath
    Member

    No it isn't and it is highly unlikely it will be.

  7. teamoyeniyi
    Member

    Well, THAT makes no sense if it really is the "future"!!

  8. timethief
    Member

    @thesacredpath
    plugin > http://www.infinite-scroll.com/

  9. raincoaster
    Member

    The only themes I can see NEVER having infinite scroll are Monotone and Duotone and Hemingway.

    There have been hints that staff have been really REALLY surprised at the outcry, and are pondering options. This would be the point at which to ask for a toggle: infinite/finite scrolling under Settings->Reading.

    I've seen Automattic roll back on exactly one decision in my six years here, and it was so long ago I can't remember what it was. Don't hold your breath on them reversing this decision, but Do continue to insist that it be opt-in, a toggle, and we may actually get what we want. After all, hard to believe or not, lots of people DO want infinite scroll.

    It certainly IS hard to believe, when they just introduced pagination for comments a year ago or so.

  10. insidemantpa
    Member

    Raincoaster, you have a much better grasp on WP history than we do. As it stands, I have 3 different polite, cogent letters into WP Support on the issue.

    All have gone unanswered. :(

  11. raincoaster
    Member

    Expect that to continue. They're nice guys, but alas, not the MOST responsive; we volunteers are supposed to be the frontline of customer service.

    BIG NEWS FOR PREMIUM THEME PURCHASERS: I got a response from Matt.     Here it is verbatim:

    Yep, the plan is for it to be on all themes that it can work on, meaning not messing up widgets or being something like Depo Masthead where the design doesn’t afford it. Also if people use the static front page feature it of course doesn’t apply.

    So yes, if you purchased a premium theme, expect Infinite Scroll to be on it sooner rather than later, even if it wasn't there when you purchased it.

  12. insidemantpa
    Member

    Rainscoaster,

    If a site makes the move to WP.org-- they'll be able to disable the scrolling feature in javascript... Correct?

    That's what I was told, at least.

    Thanks for the insight.

  13. raincoaster
    Member

    If a site moves to WordPress.org, you have to start over with a new theme anyway. For some WP.com themes there are .org counterparts, and those do not have the infinite scroll installed on them YET. I expect future upgrades will include that, and that there will be a workaround offered. There's already a plugin that will activate infinite scroll if you install it on a theme that doesn't have it.

  14. teamoyeniyi
    Member

    Then I want a refund of my Premium Theme BEFORE that happens, as I will have no choice but to move. A static front page doesn't suit me, nor does infinite scrolling and nor does a theme that only shows one post on the front page.

    *sigh* I thought I'd be safe at WP for life - seems that is not the case.

    Raincoaster, WP did roll back a recent change - in the last few months - when there was a massive outcry. Damned if I can remember what it was now though.

  15. raincoaster
    Member

    Me either, but it seems to me it was at least a year ago. I'm old, though, my memory is gone.

    The BEST bet is to hammer them with requests for a toggle. They can do that. They probably will, if enough people ask for it.

    This is very definitely a "fuck the third world" move, now that I think of it. Having been on a slow connection lately, I'm really noticing how long it takes certain posts of mine to load, and with infinite scroll, I can see a point at which my blog will become unreadable on slow connections and computers with little RAM, even loading seven posts at a time.

  16. namibsands
    Member

    In that case, I'll also join you in begging for a toggle, Raincoaster. My blog is also taking a long time to load.

  17. timethief
    Member

    I think we can all safely surmise that everyone posting in the sticky post and/or in the many threads asking for this infinite scrolling to be disabled or for an opt out is a person who would want a toggle. I am in favor of anything that allows me to disable it.

  18. mannerofspeaking
    Member

    What surprises me most in this whole saga is the reticence of WP when it comes to communicating with members. Matt's message on the now closed thread was welcome insofar as it was a response, but it came very late. And immediately closing that discussion was less than ideal.

    But I am going to change my tack a bit on this issue. Fortunately (for me) my footers are basically all widgets of different blogging services where I have registered my blog. You know the kind I mean - you have to have them on your site for your blog to be featured on theirs. So even though I do not like the infinite scroll and even though I side with those who would like it to be optional, it probably does not matter as much to me, except for problems it causes for those with slow connections.

    Having said that, until such time as WP make this an option - PLEASE MAKE THIS AN OPTION - I will try to pose constructive ideas:

    1. Please remove the little banner that shows up when infinite scrolling kicks in. It is annoying. It repeats the name of my blog which most astute readers would see at the top of the page in big black letters when they arrive. And it has the name of the theme which most readers don't care about. I realize that it is advertising for WP but that is what you had at the bottom of every page before infinite scrolling. (See plea above.)

    2. In addition to the standard WP share buttons, I place a green/grey TweetMeme button on all posts except my "Quotes for Public Speakers" series. I have just noticed that they still show up on the first posts, but when infinite scrolling kicks in, they are gone on all the other older posts. If you click the page of a specific post, the button is back but not on the home page. That is a bug that needs to be worked out.

  19. mannerofspeaking
    Member

    @timethief - You've clearly been working overtime on this one.

    I can just picture you, 60 years from now, sitting in your rocking chair with the latest computer/gadget and surrounded by eager young bloggers who have made the pilgrimage to listen to your words of wisdom. You take a sip from your tea mug, carefully replace it on the side table and begin, "Let me tell you about a very old process called "infinite scrolling" and the Great WordPress debacle of 2012 ..."

    ;-)

  20. teamoyeniyi
    Member

    @Raincoaster - you are onto a VERY GOOD POINT!!!

    The third world will not be able to use WP at all under those conditions. Even the very rich middle east would have problems. When I was in Qatar it took me 10 minutes to open an email attachment and it wasn't very big!.

    @mannerofspeaking - I love that image - it is great!!!!

  21. endofthegame
    Member

    Great, now my home page looks like a newsfeed on Facebook. I've gotten used to Facebook's changing everything without telling anyone or giving a shit, but I never expected the same to attitude to come from WordPress... What is the internet coming to!?

    I hope you create an option to turn it on or off; I'm sure you would be a little upset if your electrician came into your house while you were asleep, replaced all your lights with red ones, turned them all on and then got rid of the light switches so you had to endure them 24/7.

    You have to meet people half way. We meet you half way by continuing to use your service, give you money, and accept most of your new 'ideas' - but only when they're unobtrusive and not forced down our throat like infinite scrolling is.

    I know this comment isn't going to make any difference, I just wanted to throw a needle in the haystack of complaints and hope that it hits someone who works for WP in the eye.

  22. listlessink
    Member

    I'm a little disappointed that the only staff response doesn't allow us to respond to it... :(

    So, I'll just say a few words here.

    It seems like the staff is firm on infinite scrolling, and I'm fine with it being the default of themes. However, not allowing an opt-out function seems as if they are forcing it on us. In fact, matt's whole response seems to be telling us that they know what's best for our blog, what we should like, and what matters to us (stats).

    " People don't come to the forums to say they like something they usually come when they have a problem. That's why we ask for feedback on the forums, to find the problems, not to gauge popularity. For that we've learned to look at stats, what people do versus what they say."

    I think they forget that some people don't blog only for stats. Many bloggers on the free wordpress are not big time bloggers who would trade personal tastes in site design for efficiency and incremental stat increase. A lot of us treat our blogs as personal extensions of ourselves, and we often want to control what we look like, even if it might not be the thing that most attracts the attentions of new and unknown visitors. We might blog for a specific audience (our families and friends) who are used to the look we already have. We may also be blogging for the grandparents who have terrible internet connection. Stats are not everything...

    With that said, I do trust WordPress that this is a good feature. Still, I'd really hope for an opt-out, since my primary reason for using Twenty-Ten theme was that I have a lot of site info I want to display on the front page, but not clutter up the sidebar; hence, the footer widgets are quite important.

    Or if there's a way to make both somehow compatible, so that this feature doesn't completely make another different, but good feature obsolete... That would be nice as well.

  23. mannerofspeaking
    Member

    It occurs to me that this discussion and related threads are serving a useful purpose (beyond venting) that many might not realize.

    Thus far, infinite scrolling is only on 20-10 and 20-11. With very few exceptions, the comments on these threads have come from users of those themes and those comments are basically unanimous in asking for the feature to be optional. WP has said that it wants to roll out the feature to every theme that can handle it. But this will force them to consider their next step carefully.

    If infinite scrolling gets rolled out to other themes, thousands of user who are not even aware of the issue will become all too aware of it. If their reaction is similar, there an even greater outcry. If WP doesn't roll it out to other themes, then the official line as to why this feature is so good collapses completely. It is an interesting Catch-22 and I am most curious as to how this plays out. I am not convinced that the issue is "dead and dusted".

    What this means is that we should keep the discussion alive and vibrant. We should continue to push for what we think is right, but do so in a respectful way. WP is still a great outfit that provides an excellent service.

  24. wank
    Member

    This is very definitely a "fuck the third world" move, now that I think of it.

    Oh, absolutely. The trouble is that tech guys by their nature are all using fast new equipment on fast broadband connections, so it is very hard for them to grasp that no, not everyone can upgrade to the latest version of Firefox or Chrome, because they might be stuck on an ancient PC in their workplace (or library, or internet cafe), or reliant on some flaky third-party wifi connection because they're travelling and can't afford mobile broadband. It's just part of the general bubble of privilege that open-source software operates in, unfortunately.

    It's not even as if people are demanding a new option (since we all know Matt is allergic to options); enabling / disabling infinite scroll is simply an extension of the existing option which controls how many posts are displayed per page. 1, 5, 7, 10, 15... infinite. I have no objections to infinite scroll per se. In some contexts it is great. But it will significantly cut down on the amount of time support staff have to spend dealing with questions and complaints if it is optional. Ultimately it may end up costing them more in support hours / lost upgrades / lost users than it will gain.

  25. justpi
    Member

    @caramelloham: If you never expected that attitude from WordPress, then you haven't been here long enough. Check an older example:
    http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/reblogging?replies=142
    http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/reblogging-round-2?replies=37

  26. justpi
    Member

    And a couple of others:
    http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/ugly-font-appears-now-in-html-version?replies=55
    http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/how-do-i-switch-gallery-out-of-carosel-view?replies=136

    @mannerofspeaking: I'm using The Morning After (no infinite scrolling). On Feb 7,8,9&10 my daily stats rose from around 1700 views to around 2300. So, to add a point to your previous analysis: either Matt pretends he doesn't know that the stats are influenced by many factors or he must add the magical powers of infinite scrolling to his arsenal of alleged arguments.

    @wank: Matt isn't allergic to options, he's only allergic to options we ask for.

  27. shoreacres
    Member

    Just for curiosity's sake, I decided to do some experimenting. I scrolled and scrolled and scrolled - infinitely! - on a half-dozen blogs.

    I'm on a broadband connection using FIrefox. In every instance, the process became slower and slower until my computer froze up and CtlAltDlt did nothing. Had to reboot.

    Now that's progress, right there.

  28. kellywpa
    Member

    I don’t like it. I am not using one of the themes but a friend is. I went to her blog and it is horrible. I have a cable connection & it just kept getting slower. Having footers is something extremely important to my blog and I don’t want 5 million posts on my front page.

    I just had an opportunity to move my blog and I am now thinking I should just do it. I wanted to stay here because up until now, I really liked WordPress. I have another problem that I was waiting to here back from support on but moving would also solve that problem.

  29. sweetdaysundertheoaks
    Member

    Please, please, please!!!!!!!!!!! Give us an opt out, toggle or whatever you can to stop the the infinite scroll. Just give us a choice. I dislike it more than I could ever express. I am frustrated, befuddled, angry and sad at this change. I left Blogger because of all the crazy making things going on there and felt such relief last summer when I started my WordPress blog after days and days of trying out different themes and finally happily selecting 2010 so that I could post my pictures. The slow load with pictures is excruciating and I don't yet have a large amount of posts. Please give us the choice to disable!

  30. isadz
    Member

    I'm not happy with it. I have switch my theme and the posts in the new theme don't look as well as they were in the previous one. I'm protesting against this infinite scroll here,
    http://itspak.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/infinite-scrolling-wins-users-die/comment-page-1/#comment-187.

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