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Need CSS to remove "infinite scrolling" (in K2-lite)

  1. I'm using K2-Lite theme with custom upgrade that allows changing CSS.
    Recently, WordPress has introduced "infinite scrolling" which I think is a horrible thing. After I added a dummy footer widget (thanks, user justpi, for your tip) it still leaves me with a blue "Load More Posts" button. This will keep adding ever more posts to the bottom of the open browser page.
    I don't want this user-disorienting and memory-wasting nonsense. I want to restore the original, much more user-friendly setup of a limited number of posts on a page, with "Next" and "Previous" links to open other content.
    I know (thanks to justpi again) that this can be done by changing the theme's CSS, but the required CSS appears to be different for different themes. So my request is:
    Can someone get me the specific CSS code to repair this problem and restore the original situation with "Next" and "Previous" links? With specific I mean, the code needed to do this in the K2-Lite theme?
    As I've got no experience at all with changing the CSS, I'd also much appreciate any tips about what's the best way (for an amateur like me) to actually implement this change.
    Thank you so much!

    The blog I need help with is stayontop.org.

  2. @thesacredpath: thanks for your suggestion.
    The page you gave me a link to, gives CSS examples for four different themes - not for the K2-Lite theme I'm using.
    For any other themes than their four examples, they advise to post a query here.
    Which is just what I'm trying to do now! Thanks anyway.

  3. Still no one? Would I need to repost this somewhere else to get the WP support people to read it? Please, is there someone out there who can help me or has a tip?
    Thanks!

  4. Please be patient for awhile longer. It's Monday and there is Staff support provided with the custom desigh upgrade.

  5. update:
    By way of experiment, on my CSS edit page I tried one of the example codes (meant for other themes) from the page linked above by thesacredpath.
    I didn't dare to actually save it (never meddled with theme CSS before, so afraid to make a catastrophic mistake) but I could take a look at the resulting preview.
    The big "Load more posts" button had indeed disappeared! But the "previous" and "next" navigation links were still missing, so the result was not really useable...
    I confess I really do hate this, wasting time just to restore something that was perfectly alright and should never have been changed in the first place.

  6. I hear you and I empathize but I can't help with CSS editing.

  7. @henkvansetten: WP has the illusion that infinite scrolling is "the future of all web pages", and wants you to have it even if you don't want to. So, as expected, staff once again 'neglected' to answer your question although they had to.

    This is what you need to add in your CSS editor:

    #infinite-handle {
    display:none;
    }
    .infinite-scroll #nav-below {
    display:block;
    }
  8. We don't allow removal of some things, such as footer credits, but I do think you should be able to customize the infinite scrolling if you have purchased the Custom Design upgrade. That said, we would like to encourage you to keep infinite scrolling and give it a chance if possible!

    Thanks for the workaround @justpi. I wasn't neglecting the question, but I was taking a bit longer on this one since it's a feature we'd really like to encourage everyone to keep rather than trying to disable it.

  9. "Happiness engineering" -- such an interesting way to say "we know what's best for you."

  10. sonofbruce, engineering happiness isn't always the most exact science—but as happiness engineers, we do work hard to help you the best we can! Cheers. :)

  11. @sonofbruce:
    Actually it's "we know what's best for Matt".

    @designsimply:
    "I wasn't neglecting the question, but I was taking a bit longer on this one".
    Yeah right. How long were you planning on taking on these two?
    http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/ideation-and-intent-theme-infinite-scroll?replies=7
    http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/twenty-eleven-remove-load-more-return-older-posts?replies=2
    How long are you planning on taking on this one?
    http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/load-more-posts-replaced-the-custom-css-i-just-installed-refund?replies=5
    My "neglected" was inside quotation marks, so thanks for confirming what I wrote.

  12. @justpi, pointing out mistakes isn't really how I think things should be managed. However, it's very nice of you to have helped in one of the threads you've linked. Thank you. :)

  13. Four blue mice sat on an empty hill and sang an electric cabbage...

  14. Workarounds are not always the best advice, depending on the situation.

    I do appreciate the times when you are helpful.

  15. @justpi: Thanks a lot for your CSS code. Mysterious as it looks to me, it works!

    @designsimply: Thanks for your attention from the WP staff side, I do not really doubt your willingness to help. But it's clear that in this case, the help I got from justpi was quicker and more to the point.
    Now that I seem to have the ear of the WP staff, may I explain myself a little? For I really do not consider myself one of them conservatives who by principle want to keep everything as it is, and will always oppose any change. If that were the case, I would still be working with Windows 98...
    My problem is that when WP pushes this infinite scrolling thing onto its entire user base (without asking, without offering a clear no-thank-you alternative) you seem to do so without considering all the obvious disadvantages of this new fad. Before introducing it, did you ever systematically weigh, from a site visitor perspective, the pros of infinite scrolling against the cons of infinite scrolling? I suspect you didn't. I think you just got carried away by your desire to go along with the latest trend.
    To name just one of the many problems in this particular case: infinite scrolling may be suited for the visitor who just wants to quickly skim a few of the latest posts on a phone, but it's totally unsuited for a visitor who really wants to go through a blog site in a more serious way. In that case, it's user-unfriendly, especially when it comes to navigation. For when this visitor keeps adding more and more posts (long posts, who knows) to this "infinite" page, the browser scroll bar will shrink to the point of becoming unusable. The visitor will also lose his orientation: if he wants to go back to a just-read post that was halfway down the page, he'll find that in the meantime the page has expanded so that post is now no longer halfway - but where is it now? This user will now have to scroll-search across the page in the hope to come across it again somewhere... This visitor will also lose his orientation in another way, because when an archive is neatly compartimentalized in different pages of roughly the same size, according to known "ergonomic psychology" this forms a kind of orientation raster. Wandering through archive pages 1-2-3-4-5 unconsciously you'll keep better tabs on where in the whole data mass you are, and you can use your browser's Back/Forward buttons to quickly jump back and forward again through the entire archive, jumping (and this is important) with fixed intermediate steps. Infinite scrolling makes this impossible.
    I really wonder if WP, when falling for this fad, did seriously consider all the pros against all the cons. Or did WP simply assume that the function of a blog page is the same as that of a Google search page, where the user will scroll down only (rarely back up) and where the user will stop scrolling down once he's found what he's looking for? Thinking that a blog page should work just like a search engine page, would be a grotesque functional misunderstanding...
    So designsimply, would you please, if you can, give me the list of pros and cons of infinite scrolling that WP used as a basis for the decision to introduce it? I'm looking forward to your background info!
    Thanks to all, Henk

  16. We absolutely considered the pros and cons of infinite scrolling. We reviewed stats, weighed feedback, and made decisions based on many talented designers who work here as well as our company founder who is a respected industry leader.

    it's totally unsuited for a visitor who really wants to go through a blog site in a more serious way

    I don't think that's true. However, I'm sure there are a lot of opinions that go both ways, and so we have to weigh those and come up with solutions (as a company and as a team) that we think fit best. To try to post usable, positive solutions for you: what about trying out the archives or search widgets?

    We believe users view and actually read more content overall when using infinite scroll versus pagination. Pagination is actually slower because you have to refresh an entire page request on each new page load versus only loading in a next set of post data. And even if you're still not convinced, you can always add things like archives and search widgets which may actually even be more conducive to a person tracking through and reading a large number of consecutive blogs posts in order. Regarding reading a blog in a more serious way, I read a lot of blogs and I can honestly say I have never read a blog with a reasonably large amount of content entirely from start to finish. And so whether or not someone can load an entire blog with a large amount of content into one scrolling session so big the scrollbar is unusable becomes less important in that context. Some people might argue you're looking at the surface rather than how people really interact with online content which involves a lot more than just visiting the home page.

    I'm sorry but I don't have a detailed specific list of every pro and con that was considered (please keep in mind that I wasn't personally the one making all of the decisions!), but I can offer you the main points I have observed: it's faster, stats show people are reading and interacting more with blogs that have it, and the fact that it's a popular choice for other sites also shows it has interest and growing popularity on the web in general.

  17. it creates more impressions and more impressions = more advertising income

  18. timethief, however, the main goal is really to help people make engaging, interesting blogs with valuable content and customized to look beautiful. :) Ads would be useless without readers to see them.

  19. Infinite scrolling appeals to those who are using mobiles. The mobile web is growing at a phenomenal rate, and is forecast to overtake the desktop web in 2014.  Then more people will access the internet for

      the first time using a mobile phone rather than using a desktop or a laptop.

      Currently millions of people around the world have cell phones but no electricity, and by 2015 a majority in the Middle East and Southeast Asia will live “off-grid, on-net.”

      A study conducted by Connect Insight revealed only 17 percent of Internet users find online advertising to be appealing and most people considered it to be “intrusive, repetitive, unappealing and cheap.” Other studies tend to reinforrce that same dindinga nad it all comes down to demographics.

      The differences in opinion between those in the younger demographic set and the older demographic set are dramatic. The younger generation directly interact with brands and companies through social media. The older generation run AdBlockers to avoid interaction.

      • 24 percent of the 16-to 34-year-olds do think this type of advertising is appealing
      • 50 percent of those over 55 years old said they avoid websites where ads would pop up and “interrupt their online activities.”

      Infinite scrolling it creates more impressions and more impressions = more advertising income

      The main goal of any corporation (company) and their employees is to sell as many products and services as they can to make as high a profit as they can. In fact without that primary profit-making declaration one cannot register any entity as a company.

       

    • Good points and references. Saying the goal is to make as high a profit as possible sounds so solely money-driven though. But now I see what you're saying, and I think in our case it really is within reason and that the goal is not *only* to make the highest profit possible but aslo to help more good content get read. We really are interested in providing a solid service and try to balance profit with value and offering products and services that make a difference in the world (which I believe blogging does). I think we're on the same page in that regard. :) Thanks for the comment!

    • @timethief - +1

      I think you nailed it, completely. And will even admit it is likely generational... sigh.

      I use AdBlock, and so of course have the "no ads" upgrade (well, I got the package, but would have gotten that anyway) and I have no interest in social media or linking to anywhere. I have over 50 posts, and have never shown in the "topics" lists, and that's okay with me. (Yes, I follow the rules re tags and categories, I just never show up. And it does make me laugh that one of the "freshly pressed" posts has over 40 tags - I counted!)

      And the infinite scroll? I hate it. I use the "more" tag in my posts as soon as they aren't the first two, to shorten them. A never ending page drives me bonkers.

      Still, I find it a bit... ironic... that a generation that loves to tweet and use less than 140 characters, wants a web page that never ends. :-)

    • @designsimply
      As a business owner myself and I wouldn't hire any employee who didn't sing that "the goal is not *only* to make the highest profit possible but providing la, la, la ... make a difference in the world " tune.

      Money can be a powerful motivator, but as studies performed by universities around the country found, and as Dan Pink in Drive explains, rewarding people financially only works to a point. Beyond that, you need autonomy and purpose.

      Clearly we free hosted users are not being consulted prior to any major changes being made. Happiness Engineers are a youthful denographic group with a degree of autonomy and they have a purpose. When they say that they have our best interest in mind what they say isn't fully believed or accepted by bloggers in the older demographic groups. sonjofbruce summed it up very well when he said: "Happiness engineering" -- such an interesting way to say "we know what's best for you." And that is why some of my best blogging buddies joined the exodus and are now self-hosting.

    • Self-hosting is definitely the right option for some users. Both WordPress.com and WordPress.org are great choices.

    • Self hosting - been there - done that and could do that again if needs be at any time. But at this point in time I'm conducting a month long experiement. On July 1st I enabled infinite scroll on one of my blogs. I intend to test to see the impact infinite scroll makes on racking up impressions. As the blog has a No-Ads upgrade that $ aspect won't be clouding my judgment. ;)

    • Sounds like a cool experiment.

      This thread has gotten long and a bit off topic, and so I'm closing it. Thank you for your comments and feedback.

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