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Removing the scrollbar from the post editor one of the worst "improvements" yet

  1. @ roseglace,

    Yes, but I retracted the statement because it refers only to the "fixed toolbar," which not too many have found troublesome. That modification could have been made without touching the editor scrollbar and resizing tool.

  2. Every one on here with the scroll bar gone and my template not right keeps asking if you have a desk top or lap top .i called Micro soft they said it did not matter that the problem of my template looking different is because of a change done by WordPress [they did not say wp just ---i dont remember] in there programing software and other things involving them running the main site

  3. Restating what Susanbourne said - and I've talked to several others in my own writing community about this, and WordPress should know that the people complaining here are but a small subset of people with issues. I know some are scratching their heads and don't necessarily know how to get to the support area here.

    When the dashboard was redone and all the useful data was moved out of sight or attached to other sections, I said that things had reached the point where I was no longer able to heartily recommend WordPress - that I always had to do it with a qualifier. "Wordpress is pretty good, BUT they occasionally do these updates to things that make the experience worse." - This was after the infinite scroll that was added to the site while I was away, which a lot of my readers were complaining about by the time I was back, something I had to spend some time undoing in the menu (but I could undo it, which is great!)

    Now things are at the point where I'm not able to recommend WordPress to people, and I have a lot of fans who've started their own works, inspired by my own. Now I'm telling anyone who asks (and some who don't) "Don't go with WordPress, they muck things up, and the only reason I'm still with them is because I'm used to them, and that's a reality that's changing with every unasked-for update."

    I write with a very steady routine - 1k words per 2 hours, and since the change was made, I can very easily note the impact on my output. Instead of 1k words per 2 hours, it's 900. Past two weeks, I'll frequently have 1800 words written by 4pm instead of 2k words. I'm having to start earlier and put more time in because I know the writing process is more bogged down.

    I can look at this and say, very simply, this one minor inconvenience is causing me a fairly strict 10% drop in productivity. My own concern is very minor here, but it keeps getting glossed over - pg up and pg down don't work with the new setup. That's all I care about, but I spent 12+ hours per workday writing, and not being able to easily move up to check something or make an edit is a massive hassle. Every time I hit PgUp and the screen jerks around, I hate WordPress just a little. I don't want to have that kind of relationship with WordPress, and I don't want to have to, when my fans ask me if they should use WordPress, tell them "No."

  4. paladinjustice
    Member

    You've put the issue in its proper context. It's not about whether specific people dislike something, it's about the negative effect on efficiency that we are all experiencing.

    WP has a lot of good stuff going for it, but it's been made somewhat inefficient with this change. The original was better than the new improved. If Coke could go back to the original formula, so can WP.

  5. > ...it refers only to the "fixed toolbar,"....

    the video in the announcement makes it quite clear that there is more to the change. in particular it illustrates the enlarged editing box, removed scroll bar, etc. of course, we have no idea how many of those 600+ 'likes' took that into account.

  6. Yes @wildbow... One of the things that first attracted me to WP was the feeling of collaboration and cooperation among/between users and developers. That sense of workable relationship seems to be slipping away, one improvement after another. Why is it I do wonder, even as it confounds us, that WP has so few words to offer in response to all the many sentences and sentiments we users have shared about the lack of ease and time-consuming difficulties with WP's latest editing changes -- which include the disappearing scrollbar, as well as other unwelcome 'improvements.' Roll back the changes to the way they were when editing was workable and enjoyable. The longer WP keeps itself out of the conversation, the sooner many of us will be leaving WP. Is that the goal of the new improvements? One has to begin to wonder -- especially in the light of the lack of responses and responsiveness from WP itself about this particular issue. WP, are you listening and do you hear us? Please respect bloggers enough to care and comment on our shared concerns. And, of course, bring back our scroll bar now!

  7. @ roseglace,

    But I cherry-picked a quote from the Kovshenin piece referring specifically only to one element, one modification, and applied it to results due to modifications of different elements. I'm not saying that there aren't questionable claims in "New Editing and Media Updates."

    Take the following quote from the piece:

    Composing new posts — and editing old ones — has just become a lot easier with a fixed toolbar. You no longer need to scroll up and down the Post Editor to make changes, which makes longform writing, in particular, especially smoother.

    Yes, the fixed toolbar would reduce the amount of scrolling necessary to edit a long post, but (as we've mentioned several times previously in the thread) on 22 July, when the time-saving fixed toolbar was introduced, another time-wasting modification was also introduced: the removal of the editor scrollbar (as well as the resizer). For many, the net effect appears to have been increased scrolling time during ordinary post editing.

  8. Therefore, the statement,

    You no longer need to scroll up and down the Post Editor to make changes, which makes longform writing, in particular, especially smoother.

    which might have been true had the fixed toolbar been the only change, is no longer true.

  9. > The longer WP keeps itself out of the conversation, the sooner
    > many of us will be leaving WP.

    wordpress is in the converstation. late in the afternoon of july 29th, i submitted a comment on the Official Update on this topic ("New Editing and Media Updates Are Here"). i don't claim that the comment was particularly insightful, but it did ask why the complaints on these changes have not been answered or addressed.

    that comment, more than two days later, is still 'awaiting moderation.'

    that tells me that wordpress is not going to even acknowledge the existence of complaints which suggests that they're almost certainly never going to roll these changes back. so if you're threatening to leave, you may as well start packing your bags.

  10. I'm already looking for an alternative CMS to use in a self-host context.

  11. theteaspilleddaily
    Member

    Thank you @druesome for the update.

  12. Completely out of coincidence, I discovered that the admin panel on the left-hand side stays put while scrolling up or down provided that your font size is relatively small. If it becomes larger (for whatever reason), the admin panel moves up when you scroll down.

    The only scenario in which this "improvement" would retain WP.com's usefulness is the following combination:

    1. Both the admin panel and the right-hand menu (the one that has the "Publish", "Save draft", tags, categories etc options) staying put as you scroll up or down, regardless of font size used;
    2. The title bar of the post (together with the buttons beneath it that are above the editor's buttons) being always visible.

    Other than this, this "improvement" actually makes things worse.

  13. @monaeberhardt

    You have a "split screen" i.e. two rows?

  14. @opalkatze, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you help me a bit?

  15. This is what I see while editing a (noised-out for obvious reasons) post: The right-hand menus move up as I scroll down.

    http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=74826

  16. collectireland
    Member

    Well, I see nothing has changed so we either get out or grin and bear it! Anyway, I'm out of this discussion now as it's cluttering my mailbox.

    Bye all.

  17. @Mona

    Ah, you have a "split screen". In https://xxx.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post-new.php is an options tab where you can choose 1- or 2-row screen layout: you have chosen two rows, I've just one. That's why I didn't understand "the right-hand menu" at once (I'm trying to reproduce the errors described).

  18. @Wordpress

    won't you at least change the size of the editor window to the one it was before and put it fixed (at approximately 25 lines)? It's getting bigger and bigger the more I write - I do not only not like it, i hate it: So much scrolling and clicking around for absolutely nothing.

  19. @ monaeberhardt,

    Completely out of coincidence, I discovered that the admin panel on the left-hand side stays put while scrolling up or down provided that your font size is relatively small. If it becomes larger (for whatever reason), the admin panel moves up when you scroll down.

    I was able to reproduce the effect you describe, admin panel moving when scrolling, by zooming in twice, Ctrl + + (twice) at edit post. Other than that it appears that a CSS upgrade would be required to permit changing the font size.

  20. @ opalkatze,

    The latest WordPress.com Update announcement said,

    Composing new posts — and editing old ones — has just become a lot easier with a fixed toolbar. You no longer need to scroll up and down the Post Editor to make changes, which makes longform writing, in particular, especially smoother.

    Many users have in this thread described increased time spent scrolling since the update due to the removal of the post editor scrollbar. You've identified a second modification that also results in increased scrolling time, for those who use the single column layout: the new full content displayed editor window, with the resizer removed. The latter doesn't affect those using a two column layout, which (along with the fact that I'd forgotten about the single column layout option) is why I hadn't noticed the effect until you mentioned it.

  21. Actually, I use a two-column layout, and I'm affected. Both the admin panel and the right-hand options (publish, save draft, categories, tags) go up when I scroll down.

  22. @ monaeberhardt,

    That's not what I said. I said the new full content displayed editor window doesn't have the effect of causing increased scrolling time.

    As mentioned above I reproduced the effect you described. When I did so I was using the two-column layout. Had long ago forgotten about the option of a single-column layout.

  23. Oh, ok.

  24. Meant to say, as I said two comments ago,

    The new full content displayed editor window doesn't have the effect of causing increased scrolling time for those using the two column layout.

    That doesn't mean you won't see the panels moving, and experience increased scrolling time as a result. The causative factors are different in this case: 1.) removal of the editor scrollbar, 2.) large font size, or use of zoom.

  25. Those using the single column layout on a long post must now scroll to the very bottom of the post to get to the panels that us two column users have in the right sidebar. Example: To edit, add, subtract a word in the first line of a 5,000 word post, they must scroll all the way to the end to save or update.

  26. It's like the reverse of the effects seen by two-column users, on long posts. Two-columners have to scroll more when editing near the bottom of a long post to get to the save, preview, and edit buttons. One-column folks have to scroll farther when editing at the top of a post to reach those buttons.

  27. sensuouscurmudgeon
    Member

    It would be good to see another update from a staffer to let us know whether the programmers are still considering a way to address the problems this new update has caused. And if so, what are they thinking of doing?

  28. @sensuouscurmudgeon What do you think this is, Linden Lab?

  29. The new edit box was already extremely annoying, but I literally can't edit old pages and posts now. I click in the text editing box, I try to type or move the cursor, it lurches to a different paragraph and the cursor disappears.

    Before (note position of cursor, marked with red scribble, where I just clicked in the box):

    http://motownjunkies.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/before.jpg

    ...and then I press a key, and the cursor disappears and the view lurches to another part of the text:

    http://motownjunkies.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/after.jpg

    And I can't see where the cursor is or what I'm typing. If I click where I can see it, the same thing happens as soon as I press any key.

    I'm not over-exaggerating, I'm not saying it's simply more of a chore than before, I mean I literally, physically can't edit my old posts any more. This cannot be the intended behaviour. Can someone please tell me how to fix this?

  30. gaudetetheology
    Member

    Like nixonradio, I cannot edit properly because I place my cursor where I want to edit and as soon as I start to type, the screen scrolls to somewhere else such that my cursor is not visible.

    WORKAROUND: It behaves better in full screen mode. *However*, the page-up and page-down keys don't work in full screen mode.

    (Which just completely boggles my mind. Those keys are so much more convenient and reproducible than actually dragging a scroll bar around. It seems as if this was not well tested in the text-heavy, long-form, keyboard-oriented use case.)

    I'm really finding this change incredibly buggy. The ever-expanding text window routinely makes my text disappear, so that I can't see what I'm typing, or can only see the last few words at the tippy-top of the scroll area and only the empty white space is visible.

    Oh, and I just tried it again, and now am finding that the visible area is sometimes not, in fact, expanding as I type, so again I'm typing words I can't see, except that they're at the *bottom* of the area now.

    Again, my workaround has been to use the fullscreen editor, which I have *never used before* because I don't *like* the fullscreen editor: I want to have all my widgets there in the right hand column, and my notification bar and all that. But if the main post editor is buggy and unusable, that's my only choice. But the page-up and page-down keys don't work in the fullscreen mode, which makes *it* not very usable, either.

    GRRR. This was such a bad idea.

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